When I was young I probably used to oogle, but it definitely wasn’t for the reasons girls my age and (and later, women) assumed. I was a closet trans lesbian, and a lot of them left me doubly stunned.
I couldn’t decide if I wanted to be with them, or be them. And that extra moment of uncertainty almost undoubtedly manifested as a leer.
To all the women out there I perhaps made uncomfortable, I’m sorry. I didn’t have gross intentions, I just really liked your outfit and wished it was socially acceptable for someone like me to step outside wearing it.
It’s a lot easier to not be a creep now. If you try not to be one, you most likely won’t be seen as one. Plus it’s a lot easier not to oogle a pretty woman in a skirt when you’re also wearing a skirt. 😏
She is a smart girl - she will discover yoga pants and hoodies or whatever her definition of comfortable will be, much like you did. Sounds like you're doing good work there, Mama.
Let’s not blame the girls. If she loved yoga pants great! If she loves crop tops also great! Men’s lurking stares don’t care what you are wearing. This becomes old fashioned-“she was asking for it”.
You've misunderstood me - in my world the woman has a right to dress however she wants. That's why I said whatever her definition of comfort is. It's not about conformity and no one is asking for anything.
I remember the day that I turned to my GF and said that we were in a car with children listening to a song about eating pussy....out loud.....in a closed space.
Ugh, I'm dealing with this right now too with my 16yo. She wears men's clothes so she's typically swimming in them but she's gorgeous and she knows it, and she has a skill with makeup that I never did. She's already had to leave one job (sport's bar) because she was hit on so much and they wouldn't protect her, and her responses to those not under 18 vary from "gross, I'm 16" to "how would your daughter feel about you hitting on a child" because she has no fear of men, yet. We do our best to teach them and warn them about the world they're growing into, but that world just keeps getting darker. I so hope we get to a place one day where this conversation doesn't have to happen, but until then, may all the daughters/girls/women make it out safely. Thanks for sharing your story with us.
I read this after the discussion about it. I think it is better to read the article before the discussion. I read it with the context that you gave which is great but I feel like I don’t know if I would have had the same reaction to it if I had read it first. Lesson learned. I am so glad that I never had children because I don’t think that I would have been as intelligent as you are with what you can and cannot control. I did love the line “there maybe whores in this house” but they are still dressing appropriately for school. I probably would have said that to a child of mine. I tend to be a little blunt. Not having kids was the right choice for me. I have no regrets as a younger Boomer. Thank you for your work, it opens me up to a new perspective.
I had a lot of trouble with staring and whistles from men on construction sites when I was in my 20’s. For some reason, maybe it’s my reluctance to just accept things the way they are, I experimented.
One time I walked right up to those men, looked them in the eye, and said, “The way you are looking at me and whistling makes me feel very uncomfortable. Please stop now!”
They were so surprised. They backed down shamefacedly right away. I can’t exactly recommend this method because I can see how it could be dangerous, but maybe it’s time we come up with clear ways to call people on their behavior and ask them to stop.
Maybe a simple screenshot of the man’s face along with the message, “ I’ll be watching for you. If you ever look at my daughter that way again, I’ll be reporting you to the police.”
One of my fantasies is a special kind of paint that you spray on a leering man that they can’t wash off for a week.
I know I’m overreacting and suggesting dangerous solutions, but this kind of lecherous behavior has a cumulative effect. By the time you reach my age, my patience has worn very thin for ogling of this type. It’s becoming hard for me to not do something when young girls are subjected to this disrespectful behavior. Our daughters deserve better.
I think the fact that there has always been, in my lifetime at least, a great demand for women’s self defense classes, is telling.
When I was young I probably used to oogle, but it definitely wasn’t for the reasons girls my age and (and later, women) assumed. I was a closet trans lesbian, and a lot of them left me doubly stunned.
I couldn’t decide if I wanted to be with them, or be them. And that extra moment of uncertainty almost undoubtedly manifested as a leer.
To all the women out there I perhaps made uncomfortable, I’m sorry. I didn’t have gross intentions, I just really liked your outfit and wished it was socially acceptable for someone like me to step outside wearing it.
It’s a lot easier to not be a creep now. If you try not to be one, you most likely won’t be seen as one. Plus it’s a lot easier not to oogle a pretty woman in a skirt when you’re also wearing a skirt. 😏
Thanks for sharing this, Dana.
She is a smart girl - she will discover yoga pants and hoodies or whatever her definition of comfortable will be, much like you did. Sounds like you're doing good work there, Mama.
Let’s not blame the girls. If she loved yoga pants great! If she loves crop tops also great! Men’s lurking stares don’t care what you are wearing. This becomes old fashioned-“she was asking for it”.
You've misunderstood me - in my world the woman has a right to dress however she wants. That's why I said whatever her definition of comfort is. It's not about conformity and no one is asking for anything.
Thanks for clarifying!
This is an important conversation and so glad you are talking about it. Although we disagree a bit.
There’s a basic expectation to dress appropriately for school or work. That’s part of growing up.
But beyond that, what our girls wear has nothing to do with how they’re treated. We need to hold men accountable, not shift that burden onto girls.
We can teach self-defense and awareness. That’s about safety, not blame.
My daughter rides the NYC subway to school every day, so I understand how real this is. But this is not something our girls should have to carry.
I grew up with this, feeling like my developing body made it my fault. It didn’t then, and it doesn’t now. That’s the narrative we need to change.
WAP!
I remember the day that I turned to my GF and said that we were in a car with children listening to a song about eating pussy....out loud.....in a closed space.
Ugh, I'm dealing with this right now too with my 16yo. She wears men's clothes so she's typically swimming in them but she's gorgeous and she knows it, and she has a skill with makeup that I never did. She's already had to leave one job (sport's bar) because she was hit on so much and they wouldn't protect her, and her responses to those not under 18 vary from "gross, I'm 16" to "how would your daughter feel about you hitting on a child" because she has no fear of men, yet. We do our best to teach them and warn them about the world they're growing into, but that world just keeps getting darker. I so hope we get to a place one day where this conversation doesn't have to happen, but until then, may all the daughters/girls/women make it out safely. Thanks for sharing your story with us.
I read this after the discussion about it. I think it is better to read the article before the discussion. I read it with the context that you gave which is great but I feel like I don’t know if I would have had the same reaction to it if I had read it first. Lesson learned. I am so glad that I never had children because I don’t think that I would have been as intelligent as you are with what you can and cannot control. I did love the line “there maybe whores in this house” but they are still dressing appropriately for school. I probably would have said that to a child of mine. I tend to be a little blunt. Not having kids was the right choice for me. I have no regrets as a younger Boomer. Thank you for your work, it opens me up to a new perspective.
I had a lot of trouble with staring and whistles from men on construction sites when I was in my 20’s. For some reason, maybe it’s my reluctance to just accept things the way they are, I experimented.
One time I walked right up to those men, looked them in the eye, and said, “The way you are looking at me and whistling makes me feel very uncomfortable. Please stop now!”
They were so surprised. They backed down shamefacedly right away. I can’t exactly recommend this method because I can see how it could be dangerous, but maybe it’s time we come up with clear ways to call people on their behavior and ask them to stop.
Maybe a simple screenshot of the man’s face along with the message, “ I’ll be watching for you. If you ever look at my daughter that way again, I’ll be reporting you to the police.”
One of my fantasies is a special kind of paint that you spray on a leering man that they can’t wash off for a week.
I know I’m overreacting and suggesting dangerous solutions, but this kind of lecherous behavior has a cumulative effect. By the time you reach my age, my patience has worn very thin for ogling of this type. It’s becoming hard for me to not do something when young girls are subjected to this disrespectful behavior. Our daughters deserve better.